Entrepreneurship Case Studies - Andrew Brown
Interview with Andrew Brown from BrainsDirect on Tuesday 15th February
Did you always have entrepreneurial tendencies?
Andrew said no and even a couple of years ago he couldn't have seen himself setting up his own business. I'm probably quite
surprise to find myself in that position. He didn't know if there were character traits that were there.
Have you always wanted to have your own business?
No, however when in previous jobs he would have thought to himself, if he was doing this he would maybe have done it a bit
differently. He never thought consciously of setting up on his own, it came about more as a chain of events rather than something
he thought through from the start.
Any dreams/ambitions from an early age?
No, not from an early age. I would always have seen myself as being fairly autonomous, as some of the jobs he has been in
have been fairly stand-alone, out on his own without a clear chain of command.
Key traits in your personality?
Andrew describes himself as liking to break new ground, like to see things started, likes to pull a team around and get stuck
in. He sees this as a pattern from different jobs he has been in, so yes he would have key traits in his personality.
What did you study?
Went to University and studied BEng Electrical and Electronic Engineering.
How important was your university education?
My university would be seen as a fairly academic university, through in saying this there was professional studies, and
accounting, and health and safety was quite strongly emphasised. In terms of practical education he had very little contact with
business or the real world during his 3 years in university. Didn't do a gap year and his summer placement was abroad and it
wasn't in a business it was in another university in Yugoslavia . He couldn't really say there was a strong link here apart from
the professional studies in terms of accountancy and all that stuff. There wasn't really a strong business link there.
What were the key skills/attributes which you developed during your time at university?
University is about more than just the education thing, Andrew felt that his placement in the summer with ISDIC was quite
important, he went over to Yugoslavia on his own, abroad and it was quite a big step for him. He was quite keen to go out on his
own and do something. This was one thing from university that he would say was the start of attributes that developed.
Did you have any exposure to entrepreneurship/business planning during your time as an undergraduate?
No, very little contact with the business world. It was very much focused on engineering and academic, there
What other situations/experiences have fuelled your development? (part-time work, placement, gap year, travel etc.)
Summer placement previously mentioned fuelled development. Andrew also worked in a bank part-time while studying which was
part of his exposure to the real world. Andrew said one of the biggest things was when he spent two years abroad after university
in Eastern Europe in Moldova and his current business that he set up is actually linked to Moldova . Went over after graduated
and was accompanied by two others from England who had also just graduated. The three were pioneering student work, through
Christian thing and Andrew feels they were thrown in at the deep end and spent two years building something up from nothing.
I can look back at it now and there is now an established student movement there now which has staff and an office etc whereas
when we were there was nothing and he feels that this was a key in having to believe in yourself that you can get from A to B
and that sometimes it looks as if it isn't going to happen but sometimes these things come around by sticking at it. This whole
experience was a key element including the travel as part of this.
What sort of jobs did you apply for?
When I came back from Moldova and this was one of the reasons why he came back was that he had been out of engineering for
two years and he knew he wanted to get back into engineering. He felt that if he had left it any longer it would have been
difficult to get back into engineering. The electronic engineering opportunities were not huge at home and Andrew made a decision
that he only wanted to work for a Networking company in Northern Ireland and that is the only job he applied for as he thought
that if he wants to get back into electronics, that is the place to be. He applied for a software job there but didn't get it but
ended up in test engineering which ended up suiting him better and got to work with new products in production and was again
pioneering things and pioneering processes as the company expanded.
What did you learn form this process?
In the company, Andrew got the chance to work with new products and to work quite closely with research and development which
obviously within the context of a big company is very different to entrepreneurship but still you get the chance to see what
drive it and how important it is to get it to market quickly so that you can get a return on your investment and he feels he
probably learned quite a lot from being in the company.
When did you decide to break away?
Andrew left the company to take up a job with another company in England who he is still connected with. They were a small
business at that time, there were just three of them in the UK , there are now about 12 or 13 in the UK . They had about 20 guys
in Moldova and it's now up to about 100 so he got to see that business really grow over the 2 and a half years that he worked for
them. Andrew decided that he was working two or three days in England and two or three days at home in Belfast working for
customers in England of this company. After 2 and a half years of getting up at 4.30 am to get on a flight to England, he
decided that he didn't want to do that anymore and had no desire to move to England and that he was really quite committed to
Belfast and Northern Ireland and basically told them that he was leaving, and that he really enjoyed his job and that he knew
it wasn't going to go anywhere unless he moved to England and he didn't want to do this and that he was going to look for
something in Belfast. It was they who suggested to Andrew that he setup business on his own in Belfast . He hadn't really
thought of it at that stage, he then spent a bit of time thinking and discussing how it might work with them. They had envisaged
that he would work more as an independent contractor but Andrew said no, that he would prefer to be linked into what they were
doing and be able to sell the experience of our guys in Moldova . So that was last June that Andrew finished employment with them
and setup a limited company here on his own although he carried on contract work with them over the transition period and has
only really been started in earnest since January 2005.
What provided the catalyst for you to set up your own business?
Having seen the business grow and seeing the potential for a similar kind of business here and he took it from what happens
there and seeing that it works Andrew thought he could start the same sort of business here.
Where did you get the idea/inspiration from?
Previous employers.
What research did you carry out?
Tried to work with the local enterprise agency to get some idea and met with other enterprise agencies and the software
federation industry in N Ireland to find out what was happening in the market in N Ireland . Andrew found it very hard to get
information specifically on Northern Ireland or even on the Republic of Ireland . A lot of the information on big trends and
things is on UK and Ireland . Andrew found it very difficult to drill down. Even in Belfast the software industry federation,
the latest survey information that they had the results from was in 2001 and they suppose to publish the 2003 survey last autumn
but this has still not been published on their web site. So a lot of the information is out of date or incomplete. So Andrew did
try to do some research but found it quite difficult some specific information.
What business skills did you possess and how ere these developed?
When Andrew worked for the company in England he was quite autonomous working from home 2 or 3 days a week and he was
working directly for clients of the company in England . He got to do the whole process from proposals to contracts, pricing,
managing the project right through, close out the whole customer relationship was something that Andrew did over 2 and a half
years that Andrew feels was invaluable now in starting in being able to see the whole process however there were a lot of behind
the scene things that Andrew never got the opportunity to get a handle on, he did get a vision of this but not really hands-on.
On the customer side of things he picked up a lot of skills here and he would say that these developed over the 2 and a half
years that he was with them.
How did you go about putting your plans into practice?
The first thing was that phoned a national business start up helpline and after getting the run-around there for a while
being put through to different departments who asked sorry your through to the wrong department have you tried the national
business start up helpline, he eventually got to speak to someone helpful and he went through the local enterprise scheme there
which was quite helpful although it was much more aimed at people who are setting up self employed, contract, Andrew found that
setting up a limited company was at a different level although they were able to answer some questions but they didn't seem to be
at this. However it is compulsory that you follow through these channels.
What were the key steps in setting up the business?
The above was a key step as Andrew was able to get some advice and understand the steps in setting up a limited company. It was all new to Andrew, he was advised on the setting up director, employee caused a lot of frustration last summer however it now seems like second nature. Also meeting people here who were able to help him. Andrew has met a potential client here who has been helpful to him all along, so having someone here who has work along side me and run there own business and able to help him out.
Also having the transitional work with the previous company and having money coming in meant that he didn't have to worry about money coming in while he was running around setting everything up and registering the business with the inland revenue and doing all the paperwork, this lead through to the autumn.
What about funding, business planning etc. - what help did you get in this respect?
With the Local Enterprise Agency there was some help that came through however he felt that he was stepping through hoops
getting yourself on the books so that if you go to them for help later you have been through their scheme. Andrew didn't feel
it was really aimed at people like himself but he did get his grant, it is money although not a very significant amount of money.
In terms of a business planning, you obviously have to submit a business plan but I think certainly the people who he was dealing
with didn't know the industry well enough to really understand where the business plan was going. Andrew feels he has to do
another reiteration of this and start talking to a local investment company at another level on this before I can get help with
planning that and moving it forward. The key thing is relying on the kindness of one individual rather than the institutional
help that he has had.
What problems did you encounter?
No major show stoppers, a number of niggling things it all power for the course. When it comes to the transitional work for
the old company you have to worry about all sorts of tax implications, all kinds of things that you don't know about, finding an
accountant who understands your business it is important that they can help you, Andrew said that not every accountant would
understand the software services business. Finding lawyer that helps with contract issues all these things and the premises
issues, sorting for someone to answer the phone for you all took up a lot of time and there is no return on this time. This is a
huge problem but you just have to work through it as best you can and get advice and get referrals, e.g. someone else used them and
found them useful and recommended them to me. Last summer when I was dealing with the Local Enterprise Agency, I had no idea
where to turn to look for an Accountant; to find that balance between a very expensive big firm or a local person who may not be
that helpful to you.
Any comments on recruiting staff?
Recruitment is the next big step for Andrew, currently he works on his own although he has other resources available to him on
a contract basis but I'd like to hire someone by the end of the year but obviously it really takes the business to the next level
because someone else is dependant on your for their wages at the end of the month so it's quite a big thing and your wrapped up
in all kinds of regulations that you need to understand. The whole recruitment issues is quite daunting.
What about networking? Who/what are the key people/source in your support network (sources of positive encouragement)?
One particular person who has been working with Andrew has been very kind to him. Not that he is getting any financial return at this stage however Andrew hopes he will do in the future. Andrew also feels that his previous employer, has been very helpful in advising and working with Andrew on some things. These two would be Andrew's main support network. His business advisor through the Local Enterprise Agency was very helpful but she felt that she didn't really understand Andrew's business and as a result there was a limit to the help. Outside of this Andrew feels he doesn't have a network, and doesn't have an institutional help, no point of contact asking how are things going, you are kind of on your own.
At present.
Where are you now?
The company has been registered since last July and Andrew has had conversations with people through the autumn, it has
only really started in earnest since January. Basically Andrew is trying to put feelers through contacts he has, through networks
to get some initial projects, to get things off the ground but at the same time get together a working plans and list of contacts
so that he can do proper sales, processing, but it is early days.
How does it all work day to day?
Every day is different, at the minute his day to day is working on background issues which again are not bringing in any
return but he thinks he has to do this over the next couple of weeks to get him start. This involves negotiating an agreement
with his suppliers, trying to draw up agreements, distribution agreements, all kinds of legal things, marketing plans and trying
to get together marketing strategies. Its all background tasks but he is still trying to keep contacts ticking over in the
background by making some calls, just to let people know that he is still here. Andrew hopes in next couple of weeks to make
some call sales.
Any comments on the logistics of running a business?
Being aware of how much time is spent on tasks which aren't necessarily going to bring you a return. There are a lot of
background tasks, Andrew has a VAT return to do now that he has never done. As a result of this background setup you need to be
realistic about how much time you can spend on service and selling the projects and given what it takes to keep the business
turning over.
Future...
What are your plans for the future?
The plan would be to grow a customer base here. Andrew's plan initially is to service customers in N Ireland, moving fairly
quickly on to customers in Dublin where there is obvious a bigger market and bigger opportunities, as I said earlier I would like
to employ at least one person by the end of the year to service those projects on a full time basis so Andrew can think about
what is next. He would just like to see the business grow, to have some on-shore support staff here.
Where do you see your business in the next 5 years?
In 5 years Andrew would like to see himself like businesses in England where they have been going 2 or 3 years, where they
have a small group of on-shore support staff servicing quite a large group of software developers in Eastern Europe who are
working for a wide base of client, across different sectors and things so that we have the experience to go out there and sell.
Any plans for diversification?
Right now Andrew's plan is to focus on the core and to resist the temptation to go off on a tangent. He thinks opportunities
will arise from products and things that his company may investigate.
Any other dreams/ideas still unaccomplished?
Andrew feels his whole dream is unaccomplished at this stage until he gets started. He is going to stick with this dream
for now.
Financially
Did you put yourself in debt to start out?
Andrew didn't put himself in debt.
How long did/will it take to break even?
The business is quite unique in that he has access to a resource although he is not actually employing these people so there
isn't a huge amount of money coming out. At the minute it is not a case of breaking even as he is living off his own resources
and trying to get the business started and he has been doing a lot of contract work last year which means that on paper the
business looks very viable although this is not what he wants the business to be doing. Andrew has more money going out than
coming in, given that he is not doing any contract work however he would like to see in Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec before he has enough
money coming in to meet outgoings.
How long before you earned a proper living?
By Oct, Nov Andrew would like to take a reasonable wage out of the business but he feels that it will probably be another 6
months before there will be enough revenue for him to take a proper wage off the top.
Incubator based
Why a university incubator?
Although Andrew is based in the Science and Research building of a university he is not part of the university's tech,
which is the Incubator company. The university premises are quite good in that for networking, there are a lot of technology
companies here, there are a lot of people starting out in business so just this morning he was discussing tax implications, where
did you get your insurance. Very nice surroundings.
What value/support did it add?
He does get value from being based here.
Self
Does reality meet your expectation? Now? At the outset?
Yes, Andrew was in a small co for the past 2 and a half years so he knew what was involved, so far he hasn't had any surprises. One part that has held Andrew back is the thought of cold sales, he thought to himself is he really the person to do that, as he is not really a sales person, if he believes in something he will go out and sell it hard but in order to find the person to can have this conversation with in the first place is quite daunting actually he hasn't minded this at all and he thinks that this is one expectation that hasn't been met in that he expected this to be horrible but it is fine.
What key skills do you possess which made this process possible?
Having worked for 2 and a half years, fairly much autumnally has made it easier to start out in this and not feel isolated.
This is a key skill and in 2 and a half years working with customers he has had fairly good relationships with customers that has
given him confidence to go and be involved in a server company here and do it well.
What have you got out of the experience?
Been good to be back in Belfast and based and understand where the industry is in N Ireland having been based in England for
the past 2 and a half years. It's nice to be at home and involved at home.
What are you most proud of?
He feels at this stage it is hard to be proud of anything but once he gets his first customer with things are off the ground, right now it's early days.
What are the positives of being an entrepreneur?
The feeling of deciding your own destiny and pushing where things go. A lot of Andrew's frustration in the previous 2 and a
half years before that, in that the job wasn't really going in the direction that I would have liked it. Being able to shape your
own future. It is nice to set up projects that your not handicapped from the start and be able to see it through and it stands to
fault on something you did and not what someone else has done.
Others
How important is it to "do your homework"?
Very important, perception can be very difficult from reality. Andrew found that getting information and doing research was difficult however it is very important.
What are your top tips for other would-be entrepreneurs?
You really do need a mentor or someone who has been there before is invaluable in the little things, even being a network
situation like this is useful for the small things. It's good to be able to ask someone, "when you set this up how did
you do it?". How to complete the company log book and have someone there to call on a Friday afternoon is good.
Any comments on the need for professionalism throughout?
Customers have got to believe in you and believe that you are serious. You can't be shoddy about these things.